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Housing benefit. (Read 959 times)
seamoss
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Housing benefit.
Jun 25th, 2012 at 1:08pm
 
I'd like to see the cost of benefits come down, who wouldn't but the Prime Minister must have skin like leather attacking the "something for nothing" culture. Has he forgotten the £21,000 a year interest he claimed back from the taxpayer for the mortgage on his 2nd home in Oxford? If that's not housing benefit I don't know what is.
While I'm at it, if he is really serious about being "all in it together" in bringing down the deficit why doesn't he introduce legislation to put everyone on Pay as you earn income tax?
He delights in baiting the leader of the opposition about being on the payrole of the Trades Unions, conveniently ignoring the fact that the major contributors to the Conservative party are the super rich most of whom are paying tax at the rate of 1%.
I, like most people get told how much tax I must pay so if Mr Cameron wants to avoid being a complete hypocrite he should start at the top with his fellow millionaires and bring tax dodging to an end.
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JW
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #1 - Jun 25th, 2012 at 1:25pm
 
seamoss wrote on Jun 25th, 2012 at 1:08pm:
I'd like to see the cost of benefits come down, who wouldn't but the Prime Minister must have skin like leather attacking the "something for nothing" culture. Has he forgotten the £21,000 a year interest he claimed back from the taxpayer for the mortgage on his 2nd home in Oxford? If that's not housing benefit I don't know what is.
While I'm at it, if he is really serious about being "all in it together" in bringing down the deficit why doesn't he introduce legislation to put everyone on Pay as you earn income tax?
He delights in baiting the leader of the opposition about being on the payrole of the Trades Unions, conveniently ignoring the fact that the major contributors to the Conservative party are the super rich most of whom are paying tax at the rate of 1%.
I, like most people get told how much tax I must pay so if Mr Cameron wants to avoid being a complete hypocrite he should start at the top with his fellow millionaires and bring tax dodging to an end.


The only people who do pay their fair share is the PAYE group. It's not just the superrich, but a vast proportion of the Self Employed who do cash jobs etc. Popular thinking is that people putting the odd monitor or printer through the books are just saving the VAT - but of course, they are also saving the income tax that would have been paid to earn that money in the first place.

So on the £120 that a PAYE-er would pay for a monitor, the fiddlers *pay* £100 when the VAT comes off. And whilst the PAYE-er on 20% tax would have to earn around £175 gross to get that £120 (including the 12% NI), and a 40% payer would need to earn around £207 (ignoring the 10% NI, but including the 2%), the fiddlers earn just £100 via the company, and write it off as a legitimate business expense.

And that doesn't even begin to consider the real cash-in-hand brigade.
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« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2012 at 2:26pm by N/A »  
 
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NigelT
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #2 - Jun 25th, 2012 at 8:48pm
 
Quote:
The only people who do pay their fair share is the PAYE group. It's not just the super rich, but a vast proportion of the Self Employed who do cash jobs etc. Popular thinking is that people putting the odd monitor or printer through the books are just saving the VAT - but of course, they are also saving the income tax that would have been paid to earn that money in the first place.

So on the £120 that a PAYE-er would pay for a monitor, the fiddlers *pay* £100 when the VAT comes off. And whilst the PAYE-er on 20% tax would have to earn around £175 gross to get that £120 (including the 12% NI), and a 40% payer would need to earn around £207 (ignoring the 10% NI, but including the 2%), the fiddlers earn just £100 via the company, and write it off as a legitimate business expense.

And that doesn't even begin to consider the real cash-in-hand brigade.


The 'Self Employed don't have it all their own way you know. Yes there are some 'perks' but as a self employed businessman of over 30 years it ain't all roses. Firstly, you have to create your own work, which costs time and money, LOTS of Time and LOTS of maney. Then there are insurances to pay for (all covered for you if your employed)----------------, then if you want a pension of any sort you have to pay for it, all of it. As a PAYE your employer puts a sum in every time you have to. When I have a holiday (too few and far between for the hours I put in) I don't get paid, PAYE do. So when you tucking into your turkey at Christmas, noshing your chocolate eggs at Easter, topping up your tan in your summer holiday your wages are still hitting your bank account whilst the self employed receive NOTHING. Ditto sick leave, unless of course as a self employed person you have shelled out substantial sums for private cover. If your more than a 'one man band' your then picking up all those expenses, holidays, bank holidays, maternity leave etc for your employees. And yes we do pay tax believe it or not! If your employed and go and do a bit of cash work at weekends or do a bit of boot fairing then the tax man will never even look twice at your finances. Being self employed means your personal finances are subject to scrutiny, in depth at any time, and yes the revenue do check up, throughly. In fact, the small self employed business is more rigorously scrutinised than most large PLC's (much easier targets for the HMRC)
I've known many people over the last 30 years I've been in business (friends) who thought self employment was a good way of 'Earning a fortune, having loads of time off and paying no tax' and then went ahead and tried it themselves....of the 20 odd that did I recon less than 5 made a long term affair of it, the others going back to the safe cosy world of PAYE..........I could go on...but I think I already have.
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Southend based all my life, running two businesses for the last 30+ years. Kitchen design, build and restoration at www.KitchenSOS.co.uk & a video production business www.ArenaVideo.co.uk
 
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JW
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #3 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 7:55am
 
NigelT wrote on Jun 25th, 2012 at 8:48pm:
The 'Self Employed don't have it all their own way you know. Yes there are some 'perks' but as a self employed businessman of over 30 years it ain't all roses. Firstly, you have to create your own work, which costs time and money, LOTS of Time and LOTS of maney. Then there are insurances to pay for (all covered for you if your employed)----------------, then if you want a pension of any sort you have to pay for it, all of it. As a PAYE your employer puts a sum in every time you have to. When I have a holiday (too few and far between for the hours I put in) I don't get paid, PAYE do. So when you tucking into your turkey at Christmas, noshing your chocolate eggs at Easter, topping up your tan in your summer holiday your wages are still hitting your bank account whilst the self employed receive NOTHING. Ditto sick leave, unless of course as a self employed person you have shelled out substantial sums for private cover. If your more than a 'one man band' your then picking up all those expenses, holidays, bank holidays, maternity leave etc for your employees. And yes we do pay tax believe it or not! If your employed and go and do a bit of cash work at weekends or do a bit of boot fairing then the tax man will never even look twice at your finances. Being self employed means your personal finances are subject to scrutiny, in depth at any time, and yes the revenue do check up, throughly. In fact, the small self employed business is more rigorously scrutinised than most large PLC's (much easier targets for the HMRC)
I've known many people over the last 30 years I've been in business (friends) who thought self employment was a good way of 'Earning a fortune, having loads of time off and paying no tax' and then went ahead and tried it themselves....of the 20 odd that did I recon less than 5 made a long term affair of it, the others going back to the safe cosy world of PAYE..........I could go on...but I think I already have.


I know it's not all roses. But it's still fiddling. And it puts less into the pot. Sure, the HMRC can always check up, but they are not likely to find out about family meals being taken as staff entertainment, or the family 4x4 being filled up with diesel, or a set of inks for the family printer.

My holiday, pension, employer's NI etc isn't some freebie that my employer forgot about - it's all taken account of in my overall cost to them.

PS. You're supposed to be shocked at my initial response, and say "that never ever happens JW - I cannot believe you would suggest such a thing!".  Wink
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« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:00pm by N/A »  
 
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NigelT
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #4 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:34pm
 
What about the thousands upon thousands of PAYE's who do cash jobs on the side, take paper, pens, staples, a few bits and bobs home from the office or factory, spend a large proportion of their day on Social media sites, and think nothing of it. In fact take it almost as a right! All of which is effectively stealing but is present in every working environment. Maybe we should all jump on them. The fact is, the vast majority of TAX that isn't collected and should have been due is from the very top few percent on national and international companies and super rich individuals who pay a trifle compared to everyone else. Look at some of the recent football clubs, pay millions for players, pay the players many tens of thousands of pounds a week, charge the fans an arm and a leg to get into a game, then don't pay millions in tax, call in the receivers and end up doing a deal with HMRC to pay a few pence in the pound.......that's where the governments time and effort should be focused.
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Southend based all my life, running two businesses for the last 30+ years. Kitchen design, build and restoration at www.KitchenSOS.co.uk & a video production business www.ArenaVideo.co.uk
 
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JW
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #5 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 4:07pm
 
NigelT wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:34pm:
What about the thousands upon thousands of PAYE's who do cash jobs on the side, take paper, pens, staples, a few bits and bobs home from the office or factory, spend a large proportion of their day on Social media sites, and think nothing of it. In fact take it almost as a right! All of which is effectively stealing but is present in every working environment. Maybe we should all jump on them. The fact is, the vast majority of TAX that isn't collected and should have been due is from the very top few percent on national and international companies and super rich individuals who pay a trifle compared to everyone else. Look at some of the recent football clubs, pay millions for players, pay the players many tens of thousands of pounds a week, charge the fans an arm and a leg to get into a game, then don't pay millions in tax, call in the receivers and end up doing a deal with HMRC to pay a few pence in the pound.......that's where the governments time and effort should be focused.


PAYEs doing cash jobs on the side are tax-fiddling part-time self-employed people - there is no other way to describe them. Social media is banned at many large employers - as are timewasting websites such as webmail, ebay etc.

Football? Well what mug would pay to go and see that? Even if I found the game in the slightest bit appealing (apart from international games), I would not want to be lining the pockets of such arrogant walkers.

The big big problem here, which will remain until the law is changed, is that any self-employed tax fiddles are illegal. The super-rich & corporation tax schemes are, unfortunately legal. It's up to the HMRC to close the loops, and then enforce them.

If people want to fiddle their books, that's not my issue - but if they are caught, then pleading hardship and the fact that everyone else doing it is not a good reason, nor a good excuse.
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seamoss
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #6 - Jul 25th, 2012 at 8:42am
 
So we now have the cost to the treasury of cash in hand payments to tradesmen, (£2billion) and the open admission from many of the great and good that it is their preferred method of payment. I expect they just want to keep things in perspective because when you compare the sum involved with the 13 trillion hidden away in tax free offshore accounts it seems to pale into insignificance. The coalition have the power to legislate to end tax evasion/avoidance, they won't of course, the very same people who own the vast tax free sums also fund the tory party and you will never see a turkey voting for christmas will you.
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SatsumaPete
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Re: Housing benefit.
Reply #7 - Jul 25th, 2012 at 7:34pm
 
Maybe a move to a cashless society will change all this, with every transaction becoming viewable electronically. The attached example may become generally accepted in a few years. After all, all our debit cards are now being replaced with ''Near Field'' chips inside.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/9397681/London-2012-the-cash...
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